Colleges are eschewing their very purpose — to educate people — so they can attempt to become finishing schools for yuppies or discount degree mills.
Matthew Saccaro
As I continue to whack weeds and forge a new path for Oliver, I am constantly mulling over the state of education, too, for Henry -- will he stay motivated and interested (hopefully), will he be able to go to the college of his choice (probably not), will we be able to afford it (definitely not)? I'm at once suckered in and repelled by the planning that most of my friends have to do with their kids as they move closer toward high school graduation, and when I read this article today, I felt the substantiation (is that a word) of my gut feelings which are really just swirling about, not fully formed. But like the proverbial cow chewing her cud, I'll be thinking about all of this for a while.
Reader, what do you think?
Moo.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMy son is months away from graduating and has no idea what he wants to do anymore than his first day of kindergarten. It is hard for him because everyone is asking him and he does not know how to reply. He will figure it out. I didn't know what I wanted to do until I was into my 30's and it is only the last few years that it has been fine tuned to palliative care.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile in Canada where we can grow and use marijuana for medical purposes but this is happening. It seems the pharmaceutical companies are going to fuck us one way or another. (I hope you can click the link. It might not be available in the U.S.)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/my-daughter-will-die-under-new-canadian-marijuana-laws-1.2545309?cmp=rss
I think college is the most freedom and fun a kid is ever going to have while someone else is footing the bills. But they do learn valuable life skills. I see it in my own. State colleges are still fairly affordable and Cali has good ones. What does Henry think?
ReplyDeleteI think that Angella has some good points. I also think that if someone knows what they want to be in life and there's a degree that will help them achieve that, then they should figure out how to get that degree. Otherwise- I don't know. I went to college right out of high school and it was a miserable failure. When I went back in my late twenties, early thirties, for a nursing degree, I was serious and there was sense to it.
ReplyDeleteLots of variables to consider.
The article is interesting, but I think the author is ultimately wrong. As screwed-up as higher education is -- and it IS -- employers still want that degree. To advocate that people shouldn't attend college leaves them with a high-school diploma and nothing else, and that is really not a path to success!
ReplyDeleteTrue, the debt is crushing these days, but as Angella said, public, state schools are still available at less cost. Attending college is valuable in teaching life skills and in helping young adults decide what to do with their lives. They may not know when they get there, but hopefully while they're there, they get some ideas. (I think kids also need to LIVE at college, or at least on their own or with roommates, while they're in school. Commuting from home strips away a lot of that life-skill education. Of course, I realize I'm saying that without having to foot any bills myself!)
My parents were both college instructors so I've heard the arguments about colleges dumbing-down and becoming degree mills and job-prep factories for a long time. There's some truth to it, but we don't yet have a better system, do we?
I'm more of a fan of technical schools I think. I put myself through nursing school and at the time it was a two year diploma job. Now you require four years of university which I don't agree with at all. I went to university for a couple of years and they were interesting but learning on the job was more useful for me in nursing. The big guy also attended a tech school, as did my ex. Nor sure what it's like in the states but I think useful skills are a good thing to have at the end of your education.
ReplyDeleteI'm still a huge supporter of public higher education. Even though I tell my stories of raw deals for adjunct professors at community colleges here in Cali, I believe in the public community college system. I earn so little teaching there part time (my only current choice) that my own kids are eligible for Pell Grants and tuition waivers. And I still believe in them. There are challenges teaching in open-enrollment schools but I'm glad to meet those challenges. I believe in what I do and what my colleagues who care do. Same thing for the public universities, the state universities. The for-profit colleges and universities try to direct lower income students, minority students, and first generation graduates away from public higher education and into their diploma mills which vary wildly in quality. I don't know very much about the premier institutions like the Ivies, east and west coast. I do know those cost a bundle. Of my kids, about half are enrolled or graduated or about to graduate from a California public university or community college. The experience has enhanced their lives and helped them get jobs, I'd say. The ones who didn't go are also moving along well in life in my (mother's) view. And the one who is still high school age, he's fine. He's 16 and isn't anywhere near sure what he wants to do. His next-older sis enrolled in community college early. He definitely doesn't want to do that. That article seemed very angry. I/we (my kids and I) didn't have enough choice to get angry, really. It was community college or nothing followed by University of California or Cal State, all public schools. Lower income -- Pell Grants and tuition waivers. I've been grateful. I guess the question for two of my kids right now is "is grad school going to be worth it?" I do encourage my kids to go this route, public ed through to bachelor's degree, but the ones who haven't are okay.
ReplyDeleteIf you google ben Hewitt you can click on his blog...he has an post right now on unschooling and several in his archives.
ReplyDeleteOur thoughts are similar to yours. I got my B.A. eleven years ago and still have thousands and thousands of dollars debt. Noah and I were simply not able to make a payment on the loans when we were in our 20's and struggling to make rent. College was so fun, some wonderful years of my life, but it's hard to say if it was worth the money. And although my freshman year in the dorms was so much fun, I do think it makes a lot more sense to have kids start out at a community college for two years and save all that money. I don't know what I will tell my girls. Noah is our families primary earner, and he never went to college. I feel pretty ridiculous when I think about it. Thousands of dollars debt to be a part-time library assistant.
ReplyDeleteDon't borrow money.
ReplyDeleteMy daughter's senior year, graduation, and the whole college application and choosing and affording were all a big lump of stress. Can't avoid it from what I can tell. Choosing a college with the best financial aid package was the way we went and it happened to be my alma mater which make me very happy. But stressful - oh boy, yes! I am sure you have oodles of options that Henry is looking at, but for some reason I feel compelled to suggest you look at my daughter's school - there are a noticeable amount of Californians that attend and the financial assistance is amazing. Check it out (www.csbsju.edu)
ReplyDeleteDid you see this column? It's kind of about this subject:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/23/opinion/sunday/friedman-how-to-get-a-job-at-google.html
Most colleges in this country are not selective and if you live in CA, the colleges are very affordable, especially if the student commutes to a state school. If that 's what the kid wants to do. With your Henry, he'll probably want to go off to college as he'd likely be caught up with his peers. Where he's going to high school and what the mainstream does there will play heavily in what he wants to do. A gap year is about as adventurous as most of those kids get. With Oliver, a whole other story. But it's ultimately you and your husband's choice as to what you are willing to pay for college for him. My prediction for him, is that he'll go pretty much the standard route which gives you a good basis for comparisons with your kids who are taking paths that are quite different.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking from my little corner of corporate America I'll echo the fact that employers expect degrees. Perhaps perversely *because* they've been dumbed down, they are the new low bar & my employer, for one, will not consider non-degreed applicants, not even for the sales-y no-knowledge-needed roles. Not to say, of course, that Henry would want to work for corporate America but it opens a lot of other doors too - bank loans for a small businesses, etc.
ReplyDeleteI'll add that I was a horrible student and waiting 1-2 yrs before starting school, to figure out that I didn't want to work retail for the rest of my life & to take my time there seriously, would have been hugely beneficial. And there are some neat non-military funding funding options - Teach for America, etc.
Of course it all comes down to what Henry wants to & is willing to do... I'm sure my parents would have wished me into a more lucrative career :).
I loved my college experience, but in the beginning it was more about finally being free of my dysfunctional family home life and only having to be responsible for myself. That said, I will never forget that moment in my junior year in a Cell Phys class when all of the stars and planets aligned such that the past two years of calculus, organic chemistry and biology led to a seamless, complete understanding of how and why the Krebs Cycle worked. I swear I heard the angels sing. I had similar experiences as I moved forward in philosophy classes with the foundation of critical thinking and exploration leading to a much deeper understanding of complicated issues. I won't say that I think college is essential for those kinds of experiences, and the two things that have served me the most in the years since as I have moved from job to job (and through life, basically) are critical thinking and an absolute love of learning. Definitely more than any calculus formula Dr. Bhattacharyya taught me. I think those two things, coupled with a strong sense of what makes you light up, what you're passionate about, will take anyone far, and I would much rather send my kids off to find those things in any way they can than blindly send them to college right after high school because "that's what people do." It may be that my kids will get those things from college like I did, but maybe the Peace Corps or a gig in a small business would work better for them. I think subjecting our kids to a circumscribed path just because is a recipe for debt and disaster, but I believe that you know Henry well enough to know whether college is a good fit for him. Love.
ReplyDeleteI think it is different today then it was back when we were attending college. It is much more expensive in terms of the portion of your earnings required to pay back the loans that are required to go to the college of your choice. In addtiion, the college degree no longer guarantees you a job, so grad school becomes a necessity.Having said that, I wasn't given a free choice in terms of the colleges I could apply to. My parents required me to apply only to public state run universities, which they agreed to cover the expenses of.. My father's desire was that every one of his seven children choose a path that would lead to a paying job upon graduation… which is what i did for reasons that
ReplyDeletedefinitely related to parental pressure. Looking back on it, I do not see this as a necessarily bad thing as I was then able to support myself during my two years of grad school at a private university. Anyhoo, college is definitely not a right, but a privilege, and it is also an investment that should be contemplated objectively, like any other investment you make.I recently graduated from my second masters program and when I heard the amount of debt my young colleagues had amassed I was very concerned for them financially, despite the fact that my program had a close to 100% employment rate after graduation day. There are some great educational bargains out there… open Henry's eyes to them….. if he is in the mood!
Hi Elizabeth, I am fortunate to work at Bowdoin College (in Brunswick,ME). We have needs-blind admissions, and a few years ago replaced loans in the financial aid packages with grants and scholarships. Many of our students were home-schooled. You're not burning any bridges in Oliver's future by home-schooling. My son is an admissions counselor at another fine liberal arts school, so I have had many discussions about the admissions process. Feel free to contact me if you'd like to chat. We have a friend in common - the wonderful Christy Shake. My best regards to you and your family.
ReplyDeleteIf college is remotely a possibility, then I'm pro college all the way.
ReplyDelete